Lily's Room (Part2)

(Note) This report is not confidential but informal and meant for Lily’s reference only in the first place. All of the procedures were conducted in Japanese and were translated into English by Lily on 10 February 2007. She tried to express the content as accurately as possible based on her memo. The content was already published by the university. (Lily)

The Research Group Meeting of CISMOR, Doshisha University

Time: 13:00-17:30
Date: January 27, 2007
Place: Doshisha University, Kyoto
Theme: “Islam Today”

2 Presenters (Prof. Hassan Nakata Ko and Prof. Iizuka Masato) and 21 attendants (professors and research staff including post-graduate and undergraduate students)

Questions from Lily:

I visited Malaysia in November 2006 for research purposes.

(1) I heard some views regarding interfaith and intercultural dialogues in Malaysia from local Christian leaders and researchers. There seem to be some significant differences between the formal events organized by high-ranking government officials and the grassroots forum offered by local churches regarding the types of participants and the levels of the discussions. It seems that the mutual understanding between Muslims and Christians may have become slightly more advanced, but some problems, such as the issue of terms used in the Malay Bible and the authorities’ frequent restrictions on Malay Catholic newspapers and magazines, do not seem to be completely resolved. According to my research, these incidents have repeatedly occurred since the 1980s. The most recent case was the issue of a warning letter from the authorities to the Catholic editor in October 2006. The relationship between the Malay language and Christianity is considered “sensitive” in the quest for a peaceful and meaningful coexistence between Muslims and Christians in Malaysia. What should Christians do in order to resolve these issues? Please comment.

(2) I attended an informal hearing with the Indian Catholic secretary and researchers on Muslim reactions in Malaysia against the controversial lecture conducted by Pope Benedict at Regensburg University in Germany in September 2006. It was stated that Muslims had overreacted without understanding the Pope’s message in context and that Christian leaders had faced many challenges and difficulties with these reactions. There were also some critical comments made toward the Pope’s remarks on Islam among certain Japanese intellectuals. Further, some of them even took a pro-Muslim attitude by pointing out the lack of understanding about Islam in the U.S. and the European countries because the Westerners are considered “strong” and can be expected not to take any “revenge” against such verbal criticism. This is what can be seen in some Japanese universities today. However, if one observes the reality of each Muslim region carefully, he or she will eventually admit the complexities of the situation due to the different ratios of non-Muslim populations. May I ask for your comments?

(3) A Muslim scholar of a university in Malaysia (Note: Dr. Mohamed Azam Mohamed Adil, UiTM) told me that Muslims and non-Muslims are not equal. It might be quite appropriate for Muslims, but I often hear outcries from non-Muslims in Malaysia that they want to be treated equally in society. Is there no other solution for this discrepancy besides the way non-Muslims are urged to understand Islam correctly and completely?

(4) How and when will the phenomenon of Islamic resurgence be completed globally? Will there be a possibility of returning back again to the situation of what is called secularization or de-Islamization in the future? I would like to know your views.

Written and oral answers from the first presenter (Prof. Hassan Nakata Ko) :

(1) Christians must stop proselytizing Muslims and should stop disturbing the Islamization process in Malaysia. In Indonesia, the cases of Muslim conversion to Christianity have increased due to the Catholics’ Bible translation into Indonesian. I do not want to see this same phenomenon in Malaysia. First of all, Malaysian Christians have to recognize that Islam is the national religion in Malaysia. Non-Muslims, especially Christians, in Malaysia always oppose the Islamization policy and its implementation. That irritates Muslims. If Christians stop their opposition, then the problems will be immediately resolved.

(2) It is quite natural for non-Muslims to criticize Islam, and I do not think it is worthwhile listening to them carefully. To understand other religions is an illusion created by Western values. This is a sign of contamination in Muslim society. “There is no compulsion in Islam” is often quoted from Al-Quran so that people may think Islam provides freedom of (choice in) religion, but it is misunderstood. There is indeed compulsion in Islam. Islam compels people to obey the Islamic order by the Islamic laws. “Sword or Al-Quran?” is not the right question. “Sword, Al-Quran, or Jizyah?” is the correct one. Because he misunderstands Islam, the Pope takes an anti-Islam stance. Prof. M. has written a most appropriate column on this subject.

(3) You have to liberate yourself from the illusion that human beings are equal. You have to throw away your “ressentiment” (Note: This is a French term by Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche) to long for freedom. There is no other resolution for that. It is quite correct that Muslims and non-Muslims are not equal, because different religions must be treated differently. As a Muslim, I do not wish to be treated equally with non-Muslims.

(4) When a unity of Caliphate state will be formed, then the process of Islamic resurgence will be finished. However, I myself am very skeptical about its realization. I believe that most likely we will face the Last Judgment without re-establishing the Caliphate state. Only Allah knows for sure.

Other comments:

1．In Malaysia, there is no constitutional freedom for the Malays. In a sense, Indonesia is 　　more liberated. Compared with Indonesia, the number of casualties in Malaysia was much less during the racial clash in 1969. In Indonesia, many more people were killed because of racial and religious conflicts. Economically, Malaysia advanced further than Indonesia due to the restriction of religious freedom.

 
2. Indians in Malaysia are laborers brought by the British, and they are poor. In Saudi Arabia, for example, all foreign laborers have never been granted citizenship even though they form a greater percentage of the population than the Arab nationals. In this respect, Malaysia has adopted a much better treatment toward non-Muslims and non-Malays.

3. The former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed wrote a very unique book, entitled The Malay Dilemma. In the book, he describes Malays as biologically the most backward race. It is quite rare to openly and publicly make this statement.

4. As for the comparison of Malaysia with Israel, the latter is also different from Palestine. Economically speaking, Muslims are absolutely disadvantaged in Malaysia. Muslims in Malaysia form one half of the entire population, but the allocation of the economic pie is less than 20 percent.

Written and oral answers from the second presenter (Prof. Iizuka Masato):

I categorize your questions, along with other participants’ questions, into three groups:

1. a) Islamic fundamentalism or Islamism (4);
2. b) Islamic phobia toward Muslims (2);
3. c) Muslims and non-Muslims in the case of Malaysia (1) and (3).

1. a) In which direction is Islamism heading?

－ Establishment of the Islamic State governed by the classic Islamic laws;

－ Resurgence of the Caliphate, which was abolished in Turkey in 1924; and

－ Reformation of Ummah.

Cf.) The definition of Islamists: the people who intentionally choose Islam as their “political” ideology and precede a reform movement based on Islam, understanding fully the flow of Western “modernization” since the latter half of 19th century. (Otsuka Kazuo, What is Islamism? 2004:11)

Why has the phenomenon of Islamic resurgence occurred since the middle of the 1970s?

Motive: Arab nations were defeated in the Six-Day War (the third Middle Eastern war) against Israel.

Question: If Islam is superior to Judaism, why were Arab Muslims completely defeated by the Jewish nation of Israel?

Answer: Because we Muslims became secularized and abolished the Islamic laws. As a result, we made Allah angry and therefore received His punishment.

－ Many Muslims reflected on and criticized themselves.

－ The governments in most Muslim-dominant countries started professing themselves as “the Islamic government” since the 1970s. This means that those countries were secularized and de-Islamized before the 1960s.

If you ask me about the possibility of another re-secularization or de-Islamization, then I will say “Yes”, because all these things are done by human beings. But I would say that the Islamic resurgence will not end soon. Muslims are not the same around the world. But Islam is the religion that rectifies the wrongs and errors of Judaism and Christianity. The denial of Islam is impossible. You cannot openly claim Islam’s deficits, even though you may think it absurd.

1. b) I found your (Lily’s) question very fresh and interesting, because most of the researchers for Middle Eastern studies do not usually provide such unique perspectives. I will value your (Lily’s) view as a reference.

This kind of Muslim act may be interpreted as an “overreaction” by most Japanese, because they usually do not live closely with Muslims in Japan. This speech by the Pope is also considered a single, special case by non-Muslims. But American evangelicals make similar statements regarding Islam. Muslims have endured these irritating remarks by Christians toward Islam for a long time. However, they expected the Pope to be an exception, but were betrayed. Actually, most Muslims know the Christian attitude toward Islam very well. According to Muslim standpoints, if you think Islam is correct, then you will naturally become a Muslim.

What we foreign researchers fear is neither Muslim terrorists nor average Muslims but the embassy from Islamic countries in Japan. Once they admit that we are anti-government, they may stop issuing our entry visas immediately. If that happens, we cannot continue our studies in those areas and will become jobless. This is the worst-case scenario; so, we have to be careful.

1. c) Your (Lily’s) question is very important and there is not an easy answer.

By the way, I like Malaysia very much and make it a rule to visit there at least once a year, because the food is delicious and the culture is unique.

The important point is that as a result of seeking peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians in Malaysia, an unequal system was born. I mean that the Malays are positioned beyond the non-Muslims socially. But I do not think it appropriate to deal with this issue from an Islamic point of view. It is a racial issue—not a religious one. The case of Malaysia is unique and special. For example, the Federation of Malaysia is the country of “Malay”sia, which means the country for the “Malay”s. Also, the constitutional definition of a Malay is a person who (1) habitually speaks the Malay language, (2) follows the Malay adat, or customary laws, and (3) is a Muslim, according to Article 160. Article 10 regulates sensitive issues, such as the position of the Malay language, the special rights of the Malays, and the fact that open discussion of the King’s position is prohibited. And let’s not forget the influence of the racial clash of May 13, 1969.

Although these definitions and prohibitions were regulated to prevent further possible clashes beforehand, they were not implemented completely on the spot. Before the 1960s, the population ratios of Malays and non-Malays were almost 50:50. We must now look at the issue from an economic and political point of view. I think it is almost in vain to urge non-Muslims to understand Islam fully. But I mean it differently from Prof. Nakata’s perspective.

I think the Malaysian case is very similar to the Iraqi case. If Malaysia adopts and implements a fully democratic polity by treating everyone equally, severe catastrophe and serious confusion will result, which could generate war. Look at the present Iraqi situation. Once everyone among the Sunnis and Shi’ites asked for equal treatment, disaster struck. Also, the policy of supporting moderate Muslims by suppressing extreme Muslims is not very effective. The inter-religious dialogues between the religious leaders in Japan, the West, and the Muslim leaders are not in fact established.

However, I now understand the evacuation of the Arab Christians to the West from the Middle East. In the British or French colonial period, Arab Christians were treated much better than Arab Muslims by colonizers, and consequently, most Muslims consider Christians “pro-Westerners” and “anti-locals.” This phenomenon seems to be happening in Malaysia as well.

I think it’s wrong for people to assume that Malaysia is a model country in the Muslim world. The truth is that there will be always a high possibility that the situation in Malaysia could mimic that in Iraq, so we need to continue observing the Malaysian situation.

I do not think the present unequal situation in Malaysia is a good thing. If the coexistence between citizens is the ultimate goal we seek, then the problem is not Muslims themselves, but the resistance from the weaker, handicapped side.

Generally speaking, Muslims love religious discussions, such as how Buddhism differs from Islam. If you are in the Middle East, you are forced to talk with Muslims on inter-religious issues daily.

In the past, there were more Muslims who drank alcohol. Now, in my observation, they have become more solemnized.

*Lily’s response to the questions from the other participants:

Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to reply to your questions.

I have long had an impression of Malaysia as a truly mosaic and diverse country. If you look at something through a kaleidoscope, you will find many different designs and angles, even though they are all based on the same elements. Malaysia is something like that. If you see Malaysia from the Islamic point of view, then you may want to ask, “Is Malaysia heading for a Turkish approach or an Egyptian approach?” But if you focus on the non-Muslim perspective, then you will see Malaysia very differently. I believe no perspective is wrong. At the same time, there is no single correct view. Malaysia is, I am afraid, not a very culturally deep society compared to the other Asian areas—she is rather plain. However, if you want to discover something interesting about Malaysia, then just look at the diversity of Malaysian views and perspectives. Whenever I study Malaysia, I usually do not start with the theoretical framework. I make it a rule to pick up a specific issue and try to gradually enlarge and deepen the matter, simply due to the above-mentioned circumstances surrounding Malaysia.

I feel some disagreeable resistance when listening to the first presenter’s comments on the non-Muslim status in Malaysia. You told us just now that Malaysia is a much better country and that Muslim authorities treat non-Muslims much better than in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, the foreign non-Muslim population is larger than the local Arab Muslim population, and the former is not allowed to obtain the same status as the latter. The British colonialists brought the Chinese and the Indians to Malaya during the British Malaya period, but those non-Malays were given Malaysian citizenships just as readily as the post-independence period. This is why the first presenter thinks that Malaysia is “better” than Saudi Arabia. I will accept your view as one of the views, because you may arrive at your conclusions by comparison with the Arab nations. I am very sorry for my dissenting opinion, but I would like Malaysia to be viewed as a country of the Southeast Asian region. Historically and culturally, Malaysia has been making casual contacts with India and China. People have visited Malaysia freely from India and China and they mingled with each other in an informal way. This phenomenon has not only been happening in Malaysia, but in most parts of Southeast Asia, since before the 17th century when the Western colonizers came here. I hope you can understand and appreciate my views. Thank you.

*Prof. Mori Koichi: Malaysia is the Malay state. Israel is the Jewish state. If we compare Israel with Malaysia, can we say that both nations are the same with regards to the discriminating policy against the minorities?

The second presenter: Yes, they are same.

*Mr. Aida (The editorial member of Kyodo News Company): I have never been to Malaysia, but the issues surrounding Malaysia seem interesting to me. Concerning the Iraqi issue, which direction is better, the Malaysian style, or the Bosnian style? As for Malaysia, the points are threefold: Islam, Christianity, and the Chinese. I wonder why the economic progress is guaranteed in Malaysia. Is Malaysia similar to the Egyptian type, then?

*Dr. Shamir (from Egypt): Malaysian Islam is successful, but Indonesian Islam is not successful. Now I am fearful to go back to my country, Egypt, because there are more extreme Muslims there.

*The second presenter: I am not an expert on Malaysia. Lily may elaborate on Malaysia more specifically. But is the fact that the country maintains peace and there are no killings really satisfactory for us? Can we keep silent simply because these problems are happening in a foreign country?

(The End)